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How to Create the Ultimate Course for Repeat Buyers with Dr. Carrie Rose| #031

SWW 31 | Repeat Buyers

SWW 31 | Repeat Buyers

Did you hear the news? Online learning is a multibillion dollar industry! Ok. That’s not “news.” But you might perk your ears to the meager 3-5% course completion rate that could be killing the back end of your funnel. This episode may not be saturated with webinar talk but it will help you course creators increase the quality and long-term profitability of your course.

Dr. Carrie Rose had dedicated the entirety of her professional career into learning management curriculum.  She’s the founder of Of Course, a company that helps entrepreneurs successfully get their message out with online courses. In this episode, Carrie unpacks how to optimize your course for maximum engagement and course completion rates that shape students into loyal repeat buyers.

Listen to the podcast here:

 How to Create the Ultimate Course for Repeat Buyers with Dr. Carrie Rose

This is an awesome interview with Dr. Carrie Rose of Ofcourse. We dove deep into figuring out how to create the absolute best course for you. She is somebody who has dedicated nearly her entire professional life into the learning management curriculum. When it comes to increasing your course completion rates, which is a big part of your funnel, it might not be in the sales aspect, but it’s a big part of your client journey continuum. You have to know how to get engagement and how to get that course completion rate so they stick around so they become raving fans, loyal fans, and ultimately buy from you again and again and again. We talked about a ton of things such as Course Bots. Let’s jump right into our episode with Dr. Carrie Rose of Ofcourse. Carrie, how are you?

I’m great. Thank you so much for having me.

I’m going to be a student asking hopefully intelligent questions, learning how to improve my own courses to improve retention, stick rate. Once people get into my funnel, after I’ve sold them from one of my webinars, they’ve joined one of my courses. I need to figure out how on Earth am I going to keep them engaged, get them to become a raving fan, tell all their friends about it and work with me in the future.

I think you’re doing what we should all do like every day, just wake up with that, “I’m going to be a student now and I’m going to learn as much as possible in this moment.” Then just be open to whatever the unknown is that presents itself. I’m excited for the party.

Let’s give our audience a little bit of background, who is the great Dr. Carrie Rose? Give us a quick introduction and then we’ll jump into it.

I really have a fascination with learning and it stems from my childhood. I had something called selective mutism. From the time I was four until the time I was ten, I barely spoke. I’m also dyslexic. I was a lefty that they trained to be right-handed. I started fifth grade not knowing how to read. Just this quiet shell of a human being, really on a trajectory towards absolutely nowhere. I had one teacher in one year’s time take me from that to the highest standardized test score that school had seen in just one year, just from using whatever strategies she used with me. Many people ask me, “What did she do?” I’m like, “I don’t know. I was ten.” I was just thankful at that point. I spent ten years of my life in public education. I’ve worked with all students primarily at a school with the majority of low socioeconomic background. 95% of the students were receiving free reduced lunch. The kids who’d go home on the weekends and you don’t know if they were getting fed until they came back on Monday and had their free breakfast again.

I did have selective mutism, ADHD of course, deaf and hard of hearing, autism, dyslexia, although it’s really diagnosed as auditory processing issues now. I went on to get my doctorate. I decided I was going to change the world. In order to do that I thought I’d go to work for the Department of Education, either State or Federal level. I’m writing my dissertation on Professional Development and I decide to go to a World of Beer. I met three guys there that introduced me to the world of online marketing. I didn’t really like not understanding what they were talking about. They said things that night like SEO and affiliate marketing. I’m like, “What the heck are those? I don’t get it.” I don’t like not knowing.

What was the conference?

It wasn’t a conference. They just happened to be at the World of Beer in Melbourne. It was Jesse Jameson of Social Media Pro, TJ Erway and Matt Crystal of Elite Marketing Pro, which was Magnetic Sponsoring, which they took over from Mike Dillard. I just happened to meet really the right people that were in the info product creation space for years and have vast knowledge of internet marketing. They really took me under their wing and they introduced me to online course after online course after online course so I could try to wrap my head around what was going on in this space that I didn’t understand. While I’m taking these, I’m also writing my dissertation on Professional Development at the same time. This is all I’m thinking about and I’m taking these courses. I’m like, “We’re doing the same darn thing in online courses that we’re doing in public education. We’re repeating the same processes,” which is interesting now as an entrepreneur because so many entrepreneurs that I know hate Public Ed. They’re bashing all the time and I’m like guys, “You’re doing it. You’re doing the same thing.

In fact, we’re taking the worst examples from our experiences inside of the classroom and putting them inside of courses and leaving out all of the good stuff.” There are some people out there that are exceptions to the rule, but in many cases, the things that made our classrooms come alive for us when we were inside of them were lacking inside of our courses, too. That’s how I ended up doing what I do now. It just became the same obsession for how does one connect to content? How does the human brain turn on? I created a process based on over 500 research studies on how the human brain connects to content in order to build the courses from that process.

You blew my mind just with your background. Coming from where you started, you couldn’t read by the age of ten. From the age of ten until now, your mission has been to just help everyone in the education space from students and course instructors to make everything more effective and more impactful.

Not from the age of ten on. At first, I needed some time to figure out myself and what I wanted to do but eventually, I spent some time in theater. I did a lot of other things. Ten years in Public Ed, and then on into the course creation space and it’s just been a beautiful obsession.

Online courses have the power to lift up masses of people in a lot of different ways, business, health, financial, family, relationships. Click To Tweet

Tell me what’s going on now with Ofcourse. Talk about what the company is doing. I’ll be giving some teaser content that I’m really excited to learn about, like Course Bots. That got me really excited. Tell me what Ofcourse is all about and then we’ll jump into the core part of the interview?

Ofcourse is really a combination of my partner and myself. My partner is my fiancé, Lechon Kirb, we’re partners in business and in life. We will spring our own story to it and it’s really been an interesting blend. My partner actually was locked in a refrigerator face down at one point when he was six. He went in there to play hide and go seek and then the fridge tipped over and he was stuck in there for like 30 minutes as a kid just like screaming, trying to get out and couldn’t. His main thing is freedom. Part of our company is all based on freedom. Having that lifestyle, having that freedom to do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it. That’s the driving force in the heart inside of that. My focus is really just on that learning component. I believe that online courses have the power to lift up masses of people. Lift up, that could look like a lot of different ways, business, health, financial, family, relationships. We have this power in this instrument to really make a huge impact on people. How do we do that? It doesn’t look like the version that we have currently. My focus and that is to help people make that shift into these really impactful courses that really do change lives. His focus is really on that freedom component. It’s a blend.

What’s you core focus is helping these instructors create this courses? What’s the big pain that you were set out to solve when you focused on this expertise?

I think that the first pain that I saw was of course just repeating the bad habits. I’d sit down and take a course and I go, “Thank God I’m smart and I write fast.” Otherwise, I wouldn’t be able to get any of this. For that, it was like, “How do we make it so that we can learn this information?” Then what I found when I got deeper into it was that we have on average of 3% to 5% completion rate and what is now grown to $255 billion industry. It was a $170 billion in 2015 and it’s now $255 billion. It’s not like it’s going away. It’s not decreasing. We’re not in the place where it’s like, “This is industry is going to whatever.” We still have a massive disparity between the energy that people give us in money and what they’re getting in value. It’s not the same and it’s not equating. We’re starting to find that more and more industry leaders in this space are really recognizing that as far as what that does to their funnel on the back end.

I can’t give you names, I have actually heard from people in the personal development arena that have been able to point to their numbers and say, “If these people don’t finish this course, they don’t buy this course.” They’re done and they’re out of the funnel. If we start looking at it like that, most people don’t know their numbers on that. They don’t know their completion stats. I’ve talked to somebody that literally has $35 million in course sales and they don’t know their completion stats. They were like, “Maybe we could track it through our videos and see percentages.” We don’t know any of that. You don’t know more than likely where people are dropping out of your funnel, but you can probably say that less people are purchasing your next course or less people are purchasing your mastermind than purchased your first course to begin with. How do you know if those really are like, “Those are just the ones that were meant to buy this?” You don’t really know that. You don’t know who is in that course and where they were at and what they really needed from you. They could have just said, “I didn’t get what I needed. You didn’t prepare me.”

In my mind, as a course creator and also a course consumer, I’ve bought probably dozens of courses at this point. In the Internet marketing space and the digital marketing space, I’ve bought tons of courses. There are a couple of courses that tried to measure my progress inside of the course. You’re 20% complete. You’re 505 complete.Where I tend to get hung up is with me personally, if there are a lot of videos, it’s actually negative for me because that forces me to have to watch. It’s like sitting down and watching TV shows. I think there are good spots for videos and there are bad spots for videos. I know I talked to some people and they’re like, “I have to create this course. I have to create all of these videos.” I’m like, “Why do you think you have to create videos?” Some of the best content that I’ve created has just been written texts and I would love to ask you like, “What makes the perfect course? How do we create the perfect course that creates engagement, completion rates, all of that stuff?

Let’s just start with videos for one. There’s a couple of different ways to do it. One thing that you said is for you, you produce the best content that sometimes written, they’re not necessarily in video form. We do this as course creators. We think about how we learn and we think about how we produce and we have to do is we have to think we are like one piece of the puzzle. It’s never about how we learn, it’s always about how they learn. If you’re just looking at modalities like modalities is like one part of it. If you just look at that, you wanted to touch on all of them, you want to make sure that everybody’s taken care of. What I suggest for the people that I’m creating courses with is to go out and film the video, strip the audio, making sure that they can just listen to it and then transcribe it. Then of course, we’re really not getting into the kinesthetic component until we have the application side. Kinesthetics are about 15% of the population. They are the most ignored when it comes to instruction.

What does kinesthetic means?

Kinesthetic is learned by doing. What tends to happen in the entrepreneurial population, a lot of these people are ADHD, left-handers, kinesthetic learners. Strong visual, but still for some reason attack the kinesthetic. We teach again the same way we were taught and we leave out these pieces. So many people will say things that just blow my mind. Like, “I’m so excited about my course. I’m really going to have an application component this time.” It’s like, “You should’ve had an application component every time,” or like, “I’m so tired of courses, they never helped me apply anything.” It’s like, “They’re just the wrong course or it’s a bad course.” The person, not a bad course but maybe like not done yet. Like its half-baked cookie dough as opposed to like full-baked cookie dough. We want things that are actually ready. To me every lesson and every course that I built for a client has an application component. Even a personal development course, you can have something as simple as, put a reminder in your calendar now to do this every day at 3:00 or to say this one thing every day at 3:00. Everything can have an application component. We have to stop thinking in terms of that’s the extra special, something that’s the given. It’s not instruction without that.

SWW 31 | Repeat Buyers

Repeat Buyers: People want the information that they want and they want it much faster than you’re giving it to them.

We’re ignoring 15% of the population just gone. It doesn’t sound like a lot, those really are people. It is a lot when we leave them out. I think that covers that. Back to your point on videos, videos are way too long. I don’t know where we got into five module courses with five lessons each with 40-minute videos in each chunk. I took a course on a LinkedIn product, I won’t tell you who did it. I can’t even remember their name, but it was literally like eight hours long to teach me how to set up my LinkedIn profile and I could’ve gone with a PDF on this one for sure. I know what you’re saying. People want the information that they want and they want it much faster than you’re giving it to them. We are literally competing against the Walking Dead and Game of Thrones as far as keeping people’s attention. You’ve got people that are working fulltime jobs that are trying to learn this in addition. They may have like a pot of spaghetti on the stove and three kids running around their house and trying to watch everybody and their eyes going this way and try to listen to you. Having a 40-minute video is crazy.

A learning management system out of Austin, Texas did a study and found that people fall off at the seven-minute mark. I say three to five minutes honestly, but if your video is any longer than seven, you’ve lost them already. I think it goes even further on into this. I’ll answer your other question and where I think we really need to be heading with this for what makes a good course? For me, it’s when people understand that adults are self-selective learners. When we went through school, people said, “Sit in your chair and I’m going to teach you this because this is what is on the agenda.” As adults, we can choose whatever we want to do and whatever we want to learn. In fact, we choose to buy your course or not by your course in the first place. What we need the opportunity to do is to choose what of the course we need. For me, I lean really heavily for personal development. Not personal development per se, but possibly into like choose your own adventure model. If you think about your content as a continuum, when your clients first take you to where they could potentially be, like as far as you could take them. This is your continuum. You break it even into smaller chunks and somewhere in here is your course. There are still little learning segments in here. How far down can we break these so that those videos are really tiny? So that they have really specific objectives that they’re meeting and then at that point having the person choose which of these videos that are three to five minutes long they actually need to watch. I promise you, more than likely you’re watching content that you don’t need in almost every course.

The thing that gets me is that when I’m in a course, I want to be able to reference something. If I find a golden nugget that I want to reference over and over again, I do not want it to be buried in minute fifteen of a 40-minute video. I’m never going to be able to find even if I take notes. If have a five-minute video that I can watch over and over again, I actually watch all my videos on at least double X speed because I just don’t have time. I’ve got Todd Brown’s copyrighting training right here. He sends on a USB disk. I haven’t even plugged it in yet. It’s a $3,500 course but I love Todd’s stuff. I just haven’t even been able to sit down. I’m not trying to knock what his training is. I literally don’t even know what these videos are. I don’t know how long they are. I’m saying that from a perspective of like personally I don’t have a lot of time. I’m going through Todd Herman’s 90-Day Year, which is a great course and his videos are on the shorter side. They’re still long, like fifteen to twenty minutes, but I can appreciate that.

You said something that was really impactful for me. Adults are self-selective learners. Let me make sure I’m saying this correctly. This is how I interpreted that. Adults are self-selective learners, which means like we want to pick and choose what we want to learn. We used to throw stones at these people like, “Our customers are just looking for that golden nugget and it’s in our course. They’re going to buy our course, they’re going to buy our coaching program, but they’re just looking for that one little golden nugget and regardless if you want to give them those wins, but a lot of times we want to build the core foundation of them. “Yes, I can give this awesome funnel.” You can funnel hack there or whatever you want to do, which I’m really passionate against giving them those tiny little nuggets. It’s just how we operate. We want to be able to pick and choose what we want to learn. I thought that was really valuable, plus seven minute videos max.

I think what we have to do as course creators is really let go of our ego around our content. When we’re looking at the self-selective process, I think what you said really struck a chord with me there. Like about, “They’re just looking for the golden nugget. There is no golden nugget.” Like, “Yes. Of course.” There is a process to learning the online business thing and we all have our weaknesses. I told Joel, “Please don’t have me talk about webinars. I’m the worst. I can teach you, but don’t have me talking about webinars.” We all have our things that we clearly need to learn. It’s not like we all come with like, “The magic ticket here.” When we’re looking at it, we can’t blame them for wanting to know the thing that they need to know. We don’t have any actual valid way of assessing where they’re at. We make a lot of assumptions about our students. Some people don’t even like calling them students. I’m like, “If they’re learning, they’re students and I’m also a student of theirs more than likely.” In that reciprocated learning fashion, but how do we assume that they don’t already have those pieces? How do we assume that giving them the one thing that they need won’t make them want to go even further? If they spend with you $1,000 to fix a $10,000 problem, and they can find it in three minutes, if somebody did that for me, I’d want to buy something else from them whether or not I finished everything else.

It’s hard as business owners to get over that hump, but it’s very, very important. I want to talk about a couple other things as it comes to course creation, completion, intellectual retention. I want to ask you a question about one thing that I’ve always wondered is, Do I drip the content out or do I give them all access? I’m not going to give you my presumptions. What do you think?

I go by the golden rule on a lot of things here. Treat people how you want to be treated. Unless there’s a reason to drip content, it sounds like a horrible idea to me. I haven’t seen it as a good thing. What I mean by a reason, like let’s say, “I’m going to do my launch on Friday. My course isn’t made yet. I’m pre-selling it. We’re going to create it together. Every week we’re going to have a meeting.” That’s how I’m dripping the content out. Those videos will be filmed and then you’ll have access. That makes sense and it also comes with the, “I’m giving you this upfront ahead of time when I’m selling it to you. If you’re not cool with it, you can opt out right away.” There’s that. If you don’t have a reason, you’re taking their time again. What if for some reason the kids are going to Aunt Susie’s house for a week. When they’re gone at Aunt Susie’s for this one week that is the one week that I put in my calendar to finish your darn course and if for some reason you don’t have it all in there, I can’t finish it, that stuck for what? It doesn’t make sense logically.

Unless there's a reason to drip content, it sounds like a horrible idea to me. I haven't seen it as a good thing. Click To Tweet

I know that there are other people out there that are like, Drip it so you can for whatever reason.I’ve had some people where I buy in and like I will either buy or not buy depending on how quickly they give me access to the course. If I’m about to buy or invest in a course, I’ll ask them, is this content available now or is it going to be dripped? If it’s dripped, most likely I will not buy. I’ve got two to three hours of window that I’m going to dedicate to this course and if it’s not all there, like you’re going to lose the sale. Thank you.

There are ways to address their time and their usage of it and their commitment to your course through their time. These are like add-ons to that. If you’re familiar with Jason Swank, I interviewed about 30 marketers for the book that I’m writing that’s about to come out called The Completed Course. It’s all about this one issue. One of the things that he said in the interview that I thought was just gangbusters brilliant is he asked them directly. It would take him about four hours on a Sunday afternoon inside of his basement to finish this course. He knows it’s only four hours long, you could knock it out in one day. He tells them like, “Are you going to take the course and complete it in four weeks, eight weeks or sixteen weeks?” You see three different options. They select which one and then from there, they receive an automated email sequence based on what they said they were going to complete. Each email that they get, depending on their time, it will tell them where they should be based on what they said, what they should’ve learned already and what’s coming up next. Those emails go out to help them move through the progress. It’s different than the percentage completion email. This is something you can also do with bots as well.

The percentage completion email like Thinkific, sends those out automatically. Every week people get a report saying exactly what percentage they’re at. I liked his method a lot because then it’s a personal choice. Another thing to do is you can ask them ahead of time, even if you don’t have an easy way to automate it, a simple way to work around that is just to say, “What’s the date that you have that you’re going to complete the course?” Have them think of that and then say, “Okay, put that in your calendar now.” Then put in your calendar now when you’re going to be done with module one, module two, module three, module four. You’re involving them in the planning of it than just having them do it that way. You may not be able to figure out the tech side of automating the process of getting them the emails. If you don’t have something that directly converts to whatever you need. There are issues here, but you can definitely have them just put it in their iPhone.

Bots are all the rage right now. Tell me what a course bot is and how you think it’s revolutionizing the LMS, the Learning Management System, the digital course industry?

I added this in The Completed Course so when the book comes out, they’ll be right up in there if you’re interested in that as well. You can also check out, CourseBots.com. Basically, what we’ve been doing is adding in bots that go in time with the course. What you’ve got is there are a couple of different things here. We’ve got some data. We’ve already said 3% to 5% completion rate on average. We already know the numbers around bots open versus email open rates. I just said, “You can email them, but we know what happens with emails. Even if Thinkific is emailing out the completion information, it’s like, “They may or may not get into it,” but their bot, they’re going to get into. They’re going to open their Facebook Messenger. Then even inside of that, Thinkific tested a preliminary study and found that, courses with accountability partners have three times as high a completion rate on average, at least inside of their programs that they have access to them on their platform. If we’re just looking at just motivation. If we just look at that piece right there, I encourage people to create an accountability buddy that runs in time with their course. If it should take them about five weeks, say, “I’m going check on you every week and make sure you’re up to speed.” Ask them certain questions. I’m not big into assessment questions. I’m not trying to say it like that because to me as the doctor hat back on for a second, assessments should be valid and reliable and I don’t have this statistical means to do a normreferenced tests.

These bots are going through the course with the students?

Yes. It’s just running it on the side. It’s not integrated into the LMS platform in this version. Just running on the side to be their motivation piece. We’ve got Facebook groups. Facebook groups are starting to have not as much visibility as they once had. I mean I wouldn’t discourage a course creator from creating a Facebook group and adding content to it or any content creator, but at the same time you want something that’s going to continually remind them. Right now, the path that we have is Facebook Messenger.

These messenger bots are going to go through and say, “Joel, welcome to week one. Here’s what you should be learning.” Did you make them interactive?

Definitely. It adds some gifts to them. Make them your personality really or make them have a personality of their own. We don’t want anything that’s dry and boring to engage with. You want learning to be fun. If it ever stops being fun for any reason, then that’s time to time to change. Either change what you’re teaching or change how you’re teaching. If it’s not fun, forget about it. Have it engaging, make sure you’re asking them questions like, “Did you finish?” If they finished, then like, “Woohoo.” If they didn’t, what are you going to tell them? What would be your follow-up? Do you have any tips for that? Do you have a video that you send them? What’s the next thing outside of that? If they do then, “Great. Did you answer your questions? Did you post in the group? Did you do your application?” You could even ask them to respond to you personally and tell them what your thoughts are. It doesn’t have to be all automated. It can just start by automation.

Bots are increasing engagement for everything. I love that you are implementing them into your course as well and your course is Ofcourse.

Then creating a course on it because I just want to make sure that everyone has that also. We all should be doing this. When it hit me, I was like, “Everybody should be doing this literally yesterday.” What would be the difference in how we can affect people? Again, going back to my mission, my mission is to impact not the course creator only, but their people. What would be the difference in their lives if everybody did this?

I just want to ask one final question. We’ve covered a ton of stuff and it blew my mind, which is really fun. We talked about the ideal length of video, which is about seven minutes long max. You do three to five minutes. Seven minutes was what was studied by?

Seminars.

What is the ideal length of a course? What does that look like?

Golden rule. If somebody told you that they had a course for you that was 22 hours long, how would that make you feel?

I never thought about the length when I’m selling a course.

That’s the worst. I don’t know for me a couple of hours and it really depends. I would rather see shorter courses that solves a more impactful problem faster, than like longer courses that go on and on, like maybe sometimes get there. I think it’s a catch 22 for me. I want to see people teach an inch wide and a mile deep as opposed to a mile wide and an inch deep. Shorter, but more impactful courses. That really is interplay of what kind of questions you’re asking and how you’re moving the brain and how you’re really stretching their thinking which is different than most of the questions that you’ll see asked.

SWW 31 | Repeat Buyers

Repeat Buyers: Shorter, but more impactful courses. That really is interplay of what kind of questions you’re asking and how you’re moving the brain.

Have you found the sweet spot with all the people that you’ve worked with? My personal experience, I’ve gone through six month long course, which I was really frustrated. That was dripped out over six months. That was awful and it was expensive. This was a course on how to create a software business. I was like so gung ho. I was sold hook, line and sinker. This is when I was first getting started out as an entrepreneur and I’m like, “Here’s our credit card. $6,000. Let’s go. I jump in and month one is all about mindset and there’s no action to be taken. I’m like, “What? You got to be kidding me.” It’s like you’re running so fast and you hit a steel wall and don’t knock them down when they just jumped in.

Everyone starts with mindset. I’m just like, “Leave it to the mindset of people to do the mindset.”

There is a time and a place for mindset. I like to call it foundations. It’s like going back to people want like that one golden nugget when they jumped into a course and it all depends on what the continuum. It’s all about the continuum. Where do they fall into that when you’re selling this product? When we are promoting and selling our many webinar course right now, I need them to understand the foundations first. I don’t call it mindset because I’m not a mindset guy, I don’t teach it. They have to understand the core concept. They can swipe the funnel and copy the ads, but if they don’t understand the foundation of why we’re setting it up like this and they’re going to be relying on me to give them every single answer like, “This ad doesn’t work. What do I do?” It’s like, Look at the foundation. Are you following the concepts of what we’re going through?I get it, but I totally understand what you’re saying.

I think that’s also the way we teach. We teach in a way specifically that creates reliance on us as the instructor. Many times you’ll see things like, “These are the five things. What five things? These five things. Repeat the five things, these five things. These five things. Check.” That’s where I get really upset with assessments too. It’s like, “This is just recall.” It’s like in the very basics of human understanding and human learning, but what we’re not teaching is how to think differently. That isn’t in anything will ever say, it’s always in what we have them ask of themselves and what we have them do. That’s where the strategy that I call increasing cognitive rigor. How we get them to on their own ask the right questions? If you’ve taken a basic branding course, it’s going to tell you logo design, headshot, websites, social media channels, color scheme, whatever. They won’t tell you necessarily. They go like, “Go look at your competitor’s website from the perspective of a customer, and analyze the site. Compare and contrast two different competitors’ websites. What do you see that’s the same? What do you see this different?” You’re starting to get like richer information. The more times you ask these kinds of questions, it not only makes people understand the material that they’re getting in sync with, it also rewires the brain. This is advanced, but it makes them think differently about everything that they’re going through. You and I probably asked these kinds of questions inherently and a lot of your listeners are like, “I think about that all the time.”

The student will outwork the teacher. Click To Tweet

If I’m going to do some research, I’m going to sit down and I’m going to look at the thing from all different angles, then I pick up the puzzle. A lot of people actually don’t. It’s our responsibility as instructors to not just have them repeat the thing but have them like really be moved through the process. Like even going back to your course length question, my course on building courses is like two hours long. It’s so short. The amount of time that they’re going to spend building their course though, that’s a lot longer, because it’s all the internal work that they need to do in order to be able to set themselves up. Ask all the different questions that they need to ask in order to move to set up their course and then there’s the whole build as well. For me it’s like keep those videos nice and tight, nice and short, get to the point. It’s from a Chinese philosophy, “The student will outwork the teacher.” That is entirely how I set courses up.

Everything that we’ve just talked about is really a lesson in leadership more than anything as the instructor. I don’t want my students to become self-reliant on me, because that defeats the purpose of what I’m trying to do for them. I want them to become self-reliant not dependent on me. One of the things I’ve talked about at my live event was that was my mission. I led with that in the very beginning of the seminar. In about twenty minutes, I can go through this entire funnel with you, but I need you to understand what my ultimate goal is. If you don’t understand the foundation and the reason why this works so well, all you’re going to look at as you’re going to look at my copy, you’re going to look at the two to three steps inside of my funnel and you’re just going to swipe that and you’re going to try and run it yourself. If it works, great, but if not, you can go, What do I do next?You have to understand why. My goal is to make you self–reliant, it’s not to make you dependent on me.

Dr. Carrie, the whole goal was to figure out and answer, the question, What makes the best course? How do we get these people to build a better relationship with us, the instructor, which ultimately helps us build better businesses, build more raving fans, more completion rate, all that other stuff? We talked about kinesthetic learners and the different types of learners that are going to go through your course and how do to apply all the different types of content and giving it to the people in the way that they want to consume it which I thought was excellent. We’ve talked about application. We need to get application in there for those kinesthetic learners and video maximums. The content length, shorter is always better in everything in the world of content. Like almost everything, in digital marketing, in course creation, course delivery. We talked about course bots, increasing the engagement and just increasing that retention. Was there anything that we left out in this very in depth conversation?

The Completed Course is going to come out and that has a lot more information. People ask like, “Why don’t people complete courses? They always lean in, “It’s this one answer.” What we have are tons of mitigating factors. We just looked at all of them together, you looked at the complete ecosphere, and then we’d start finding where the problems were that is leading to such an imbalance of energy. I put the books together to address all of those issues and it’s really based on some of my input, but a lot of them from people like, Ryan Deiss is in the book, Jason Swank, Jay Baer, Pat Flynn. I’ve interviewed quite a few. Ian Garlic, one of our close friends. Quite a few amazing people inside of it just to really see what are all of these mitigating factors and how are they playing out in the side of the space. I think that that would probably be definitely something to check out. That’s my Bible. Not really my Bible but where everything is as far as what plays into that course completion rate. I’m happy to share anything else, too.

Let’s figure out where they can go and connect with you. Where can they find more information about who you are?

TheCompletedCourse.com for the book, if you’re looking at that information. If you want to know more about Course bots, go to CourseBots.com. You can find me everywhere as Dr. Carrie Rose in Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, I don’t really use that. Facebook‘s really good just to reach out to my bot at any time, but happy to connect.

I had an awesome time. Go check out what Dr. Carrie’s got and check out Ofcourse. Go grab her book when it comes out and just give her some love. Let her know that you heard her on Sold With Webinars and you appreciated her content. We will continue to bring more experts on like this to help you be the best expert possible. Thank you all, and we’ll catch you on the next episode. Take care.

Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed our episode. We look forward to giving you the next one. You can also follow and watch the behind the scenes look at how I’m personally launching a brand new six and seven-figure product from scratch at SoldWithWebinars.com/TV. If you’d like to come hangout with other fellow experts, join our Facebook group at SoldWithWebinars.com/experts. Join us next time and I’ll see you there.

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It is my hope that we can all learn from one another! I hope you have enjoyed this episode of Sold With Webinars. Please let me know how I can be of service to you! Go Crush It , Joel

Joel Erway is a real deal webinar coach and expert. He helps craft webinars, sales pitches, messaging, and funnels as well as designs programs that get conversions. It’s no wonder why he’s the go-to consultant for many of the top performing digital marketing sales and lead generation webinars.

Joel has touched hundreds of webinars and sales presentations in the past ten years with clients doing doing eight and seven-figures and countless others doing multiple six-figures! Check out his Sold With Webinars podcast at http://thewebinaragency.com/podcasts/. And his new podcast, Experts Unleashed: http://expertsunleashed.com/podcasts.

Whether you’re a webinar skeptic or believer, or just need your curiosity satisfied, this episode gives an in-depth look at how and why this genius marketing tool delivers tremendous value to any business. Please visit our website for more information, www.thewebinaragency.com.

In his spare time, Joel is an avid reader and market researcher. He enjoys traveling and spending quality time with his family in upstate NY.

He is really excited to add to his services - live webinar/marketing intensive workshops! Be on the look out for the next one!

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